Legislature(1993 - 1994)

03/10/1994 05:00 PM House TRA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
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             HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE                           
                         March 10, 1994                                        
                            5:00 p.m.                                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
  Representative Richard Foster, Chair                                         
  Representative Gary Davis, Vice-Chair                                        
  Representative Bill Hudson                                                   
  Representative Curt Menard                                                   
  Representative Eldon Mulder                                                  
  Representative Al Vezey                                                      
                                                                               
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
                                                                               
  Representative Jerry Mackie                                                  
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
  HB 330:   "An Act relating to the use of natural gas as a                    
            motor vehicle fuel in state owned vehicles."                       
                                                                               
            CSHB 330 MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                    
                                                                               
  SB 82:    "An Act relating to the Dalton Highway."                           
                                                                               
            CSSB 82 MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                     
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
  RAY LATCHEN                                                                  
  Northern Eclipse                                                             
  1900 West Benson #100                                                        
  Anchorage, Alaska   99517                                                    
  274-7111                                                                     
  Position Statement:  Provided input on HB 330                                
                                                                               
  JEFF LOGAN, Staff                                                            
  Representative Joe Green                                                     
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  Room 114, State Capitol                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska   99811                                                       
  465-2283                                                                     
  Position Statement:  Presented HB 330 for sponsor                            
                                                                               
  BRUCE CAMPBELL, Commissioner                                                 
  Department of Transportation and Public Facilities                           
  3132 Channel Drive                                                           
  Juneau, Alaska   99801                                                       
  465-3901                                                                     
  Position Statement:  Provided DOT/PF position on CSSB 82                     
                                                                               
  CHIP THOMA                                                                   
  2 Marine Way, #204                                                           
  Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                        
  Position Statement:  Provided input on CSSB 82.                              
                                                                               
  SENATOR STEVE FRANK                                                          
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  Capitol Room 518                                                             
  Juneau, Alaska   99801                                                       
  465-3709                                                                     
  Position Statement:  Sponsor of CSSB 82                                      
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
  BILL:  HB 330                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: FUEL STATE AUTO FLEET WITH NATURAL GAS                          
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) GREEN,Sanders                                  
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  01/03/94      2013    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED                                 
  01/10/94      2013    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/10/94      2013    (H)   TRANSPORTATION, FINANCE                          
  01/12/94      2042    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): SANDERS                            
  02/23/94              (H)   MINUTE(ECO)                                      
  03/08/94              (H)   TRA AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 17                       
  03/08/94              (H)   MINUTE(TRA)                                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  BILL:  SB  82                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: OPENING THE DALTON HIGHWAY                                      
  BILL VERSION: CSSB 82(TRA)                                                   
  SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) FRANK,Sharp,Miller,Pearce,                            
  Phillips,Taylor;REPRESENTATIVE(S) Brice                                      
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  02/01/93       204    (S)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  02/01/93       204    (S)   TRANSPORTATION, FINANCE                          
  02/16/93              (S)   TRA AT 03:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211                   
  02/16/93              (S)   MINUTE(TRA)                                      
  02/18/93              (S)   TRA AT 03:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211                   
  02/18/93              (S)   MINUTE(TRA)                                      
  02/23/93              (S)   TRA AT 03:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211                   
  02/23/93              (S)   MINUTE(TRA)                                      
  02/25/93              (S)   MINUTE(TRA)                                      
  02/26/93       501    (S)   TRA RPT  CS  2DP 1NR SAME TITLE                  
  02/26/93       501    (S)   FISCAL NOTES TO SB & CS                          
                              (DPS, F&G)                                       
  02/26/93       501    (S)   ZERO FISCAL NOTE TO SB & CS                      
                              (DOT)                                            
  03/17/93              (S)   FIN AT 09:00 AM SENATE FINANCE                   
                              ROOM 518                                         
  03/17/93              (S)   MINUTE(FIN)                                      
  03/22/93       895    (S)   FIN RPT  4DP 3NR (TRA)CS                         
  03/22/93       896    (S)   FISCAL NOTE TO CS (S.FIN/DPS)                    
  03/22/93       896    (S)   ZERO FISCAL NOTE TO CS (DNR)                     
  03/22/93       896    (S)   PREVIOUS FN APPLIES (F&G)                        
  03/22/93       896    (S)   PREVIOUS ZERO FN APPLIES (DOT)                   
  03/22/93              (S)   MINUTE(FIN)                                      
  03/23/93              (S)   MINUTE(RLS)                                      
  04/05/93      1104    (S)   RULES 3CAL 1DNP    4/5/93                        
  04/05/93      1107    (S)   READ THE SECOND TIME                             
  04/05/93      1107    (S)   TRA  CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                     
  04/05/93      1107    (S)   ADVANCE TO THIRD READING                         
                              FAILED Y11 N9                                    
  04/05/93      1108    (S)   THIRD READING 4/6 CALENDAR                       
  04/06/93      1207    (S)   THIRD READING HELD TO 4/7                        
                              CALENDAR                                         
  04/07/93      1250    (S)   READ THE THIRD TIME  CSSB
                              82(TRA)                                          
  04/07/93      1250    (S)   COSPONSOR(S):  TAYLOR                            
  04/07/93      1251    (S)   LETTER OF INTENT #1 ADOPTED                      
                              Y13 N7                                           
  04/07/93      1252    (S)   LETTER OF INTENT #2 ADOPTED                      
                              Y13 N7                                           
  04/07/93      1252    (S)   PASSED Y11 N9                                    
  04/07/93      1253    (S)   ADAMS  NOTICE OF                                 
                              RECONSIDERATION                                  
  04/08/93      1281    (S)   RECON TAKEN UP - IN THIRD                        
                              READING                                          
  04/08/93      1281    (S)   LETTER OF INTENT #1 ADOPTED                      
                              UNAN CON                                         
  04/08/93      1281    (S)   LETTER OF INTENT #2 ADOPTED                      
                              UNAN CON                                         
  04/08/93      1281    (S)   PASSED Y11 N8 E1                                 
  04/08/93      1282    (S)   TRANSMITTED TO (H)                               
  04/08/93      1135    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  04/08/93      1135    (H)   TRANSPORTATION, FINANCE                          
  04/14/93      1242    (H)   CROSS SPONSOR(S): BRICE                          
  04/20/93              (H)   TRA AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 17                       
  04/22/93              (H)   TRA AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 17                       
  03/10/94              (H)   TRA AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 17                       
                                                                               
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
  TAPE 94-11, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR RICHARD FOSTER called the meeting to order at 5:05                     
  p.m.                                                                         
  HB 330 - FUEL STATE AUTO FLEET WITH NATURAL GAS                              
                                                                               
  CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 330(TRA):  "An Act relating to the use                 
  of natural gas as a motor vehicle fuel in state-owned                        
  vehicles and to the Department of Transportation and Public                  
  Facilities' authority to participate in joint ventures                       
  related to natural gas."                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 004                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS gave the subcommittee report on                    
  the CS for HB 330, noting that the mandate had been removed                  
  and the fiscal note subsequently reduced to zero.  In                        
  addition, "LPG" was not included because of its                              
  pollutability.                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 055                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS noted that the Department of                            
  Transportation (DOT) amendment to the bill addressed the                     
  concern over the mandate and the percentages originally                      
  included in the bill by deleting the mandate while at the                    
  same time ensuring that every effort is made to convert when                 
  economically feasible.  He also noted that the changes                       
  resulted in a zero fiscal note.                                              
                                                                               
  Number 086                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER expressed confusion over whether the                   
  fiscal note was in fact zero.                                                
                                                                               
  Number 090                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS responded that the DOT had indicated                    
  so.                                                                          
                                                                               
  Number 094                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER moved that the committee adopt                   
  the CS for HB 330 in lieu of the original bill.                              
                                                                               
  Number 095                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR FOSTER asked if there were any objections.  There were                 
  none, and the CS for HB 330 was declared moved.                              
                                                                               
  Number 099                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked how the apparent presence of more                 
  carbon in LPG affects the emissions.                                         
                                                                               
  Number 106                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. RAY LATCHEN identified himself as being with Northern                    
  Eclipse, a company which specializes in alternative fuels.                   
  He stated that the reason why propane is not as clean                        
  burning as methane is because of the carbon content.  The                    
  carbon comes out in the form of carbon dioxide and carbon                    
  monoxide; thus, the less carbon contained in the fuel, the                   
  less carbon dioxide and monoxide coming out of the tailpipe.                 
  He added that the ideal fuel would be hydrogen, which                        
  contains no carbon -- but hydrogen is not yet available.                     
                                                                               
  Number 131                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY made the point that propane engines                  
  are standard in the industrial industry.                                     
                                                                               
  Number 144                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. JEFF LOGAN, Staff, Representative Joe Green, Prime                       
  Sponsor of HB 330, pointed out that the CS contained new                     
  language in the title.                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 152                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER moved that the Transportation                    
  Committee move the CS for HB 330 with new fiscal notes from                  
  the committee with individual recommendations.                               
                                                                               
  Number 154                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR FOSTER asked for objections.  There were none, and                     
  CSHB 330 was declared moved out of committee.                                
                                                                               
  SB 82 - OPENING THE DALTON HIGHWAY                                           
                                                                               
  Number 174                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR FOSTER announced that the next bill to be heard was                    
  CSSB 82.  He asked Commissioner Campbell to give the DOT                     
  position on it.                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 176                                                                   
                                                                               
  COMMISSIONER BRUCE CAMPBELL, Department of Transportation                    
  and Public Facilities (DOT/PF), stated that he was                           
  supportive of CSSB 82.                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 184                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. CHIP THOMA identified himself as a Juneauite who had the                 
  opportunity, as a teamster, to drive the Dalton Highway in                   
  the winters of 1974, 1975 and 1976, in a variety of                          
  vehicles, and that he had found the condition of the road to                 
  be such that opening it would create safety problems for                     
  people unfamiliar with driving in winter conditions.  He                     
  concluded by warning that the state would have to look at                    
  making conditions as safe as possible, but even so, it'd be                  
  a safety hazard.                                                             
                                                                               
  Number 240                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY commented that the Dalton Highway was a                 
  superhighway back in 1974, 1975 and 1976.                                    
                                                                               
  Number 245                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR STEVE FRANK, Prime Sponsor of SB 82, thanked the                     
  committee for taking the time to hear the bill, and stated                   
  that CSSB 82 would open the James Dalton Highway (North                      
  Slope Haul Road) for public travel all the way to Prudhoe                    
  Bay.  Currently, he added, access past Disaster Creek, which                 
  is about 200 miles south of Deadhorse, is limited to those                   
  with a "commercial purpose."  However, the entire length of                  
  the road is maintained with state general fund monies.                       
  Unlike our other highways, federal dollars may not be used                   
  on the closed portion of the road because of its restricted                  
  use.  If the road is opened, the state could use federal                     
  highway funds to upgrade the highway.                                        
                                                                               
  SENATOR FRANK made the point that the commissioner would be                  
  able to close the road should safety problems arise, but his                 
  concern was primarily to allow people to drive their own                     
  road, including tourists.  He hoped the DOT could work with                  
  the oil companies which have the leases up there to gain                     
  ocean access by the people.  He concluded by once again                      
  thanking the committee for its consideration, and asserting                  
  his belief that people should be able to drive on the roads                  
  that they own.                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 340                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY made the point that there are federal                   
  highway monies in the Yukon River bridge and so, by law,                     
  that bridge must be kept open to the public.                                 
                                                                               
  Number 345                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER stated that it was his understanding                   
  that if there are federal highway dollars involved, the                      
  state may not charge a fee to use that particular road, and                  
  asked if his understanding was correct.                                      
                                                                               
  Number 348                                                                   
                                                                               
  COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL stated that a toll may be charged.                     
                                                                               
  Number 352                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR FOSTER asked how much federal dollars Alaska is losing                 
  out on because of the restricted status of the road, and how                 
  much more the federal government would pay if the road were                  
  opened up for public use.                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 355                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CURT MENARD replied that we would get none,                   
  because we've used all of the federal money that we're                       
  getting now and we won't get any more; it will just be                       
  allocated in another area.                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 360                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR FOSTER asked if there would be another threat of                       
  lawsuit if this legislation passed.                                          
                                                                               
  Number 362                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR FRANK responded that he didn't believe there would                   
  be a threat, and the legal question would be whether or not                  
  the administration has the legal authority to open the road                  
  administratively, under their general authority.                             
                                                                               
  Number 373                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MENARD asked about the current permit policy                  
  for traveling the road in the summer months.                                 
                                                                               
  Number 376                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR FRANK responded that one may obtain a permit if one                  
  has a commercial purpose, and people will claim they are                     
  photographers, or give other phony reasons, and obtain                       
  permits.  He added that there is no checkpoint currently on                  
  the road; there used to be one, but it has been defunded for                 
  several years; and the way it currently stands, you can                      
  either lie to get a permit or just ignore the requirement.                   
                                                                               
  Number 390                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MENARD stated that most of the renegades in                   
  his district just go driving and then come back with their                   
  moose or caribou.  He then asked if the North Slope is gated                 
  off at the oil companies' end and if there are fuel                          
  facilities for the general public.                                           
                                                                               
  SENATOR FRANK responded that he believed there were fuel                     
  facilities there, though the east and west docks may be                      
  gated off.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 397                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY stated that the Dalton Highway goes to                  
  the Deadhorse airport and community, which is all public                     
  roads, but the oil company private roads are indeed locked                   
  off and have security pass requirements.  He added that                      
  there are complete commercial services available in Prudhoe                  
  Bay, including hundreds of hotel rooms, and the next spot                    
  for commercial services is Coldfoot.                                         
                                                                               
  Number 412                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON stated that he had had the pleasure of                 
  driving the haul road this summer and a couple of things had                 
  struck him as being important.  First, the tremendous                        
  question of safety and who would respond to emergency                        
  situations.  His understanding was that the oil companies                    
  were primarily the only ones available to respond to the                     
  safety needs of the people, which brought up two questions.                  
  Are the oil companies there to respond to disasters down the                 
  road, or to man the pump stations?  And, when they do                        
  respond, do they assume some liability in their actions?  He                 
  said if the road is opened, the legislature simply must                      
  provide the funds asked for in the bill, so that additional                  
  troopers may be added, as well as Fish and Game people.  He                  
  concluded by wondering how DOT could give a zero fiscal note                 
  and still assume that they will have the safety on the road.                 
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY responded to Representative Hudson's                    
  comments by stating that the maintenance required to                         
  maintain a gravel surfaced road for commercial truck traffic                 
  is above and beyond the maintenance that would be required                   
  for passenger vehicles; if commercial vehicles can be safely                 
  transited, than the smaller vehicles are more than                           
  adequately taken care of.  He added that the pump stations                   
  really do refrain from providing services, though they do                    
  provide communication.                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 452                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON commented that pump station attendants                 
  have participated in rescue operations, and his concern was                  
  simply that there must be the establishment of some types of                 
  essential services if the road is going to be open to the                    
  public.                                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 464                                                                   
                                                                               
  COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL added that he was the one involved in                  
  the design of the road, so his interest is also personal.                    
  He stated that Alaska's fourth worst snow pass is along the                  
  Dalton Highway, so from the snow safety point of view he                     
  doesn't consider this road to be nearly as bad as some of                    
  the others which DOT keeps open year round.  He asked that                   
  people, when thinking about safety along the road, consider                  
  how far it is from Willow to medical facilities along the                    
  Parks Highway to Fairbanks, concluding that the highway                      
  system in Alaska is faced many times with situations where                   
  there are no medical or police facilities available for long                 
  stretches.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 496                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY moved that the CS for SB 82 be moved                    
  from the House Transportation Committee with individual                      
  recommendations.                                                             
                                                                               
  Number 502                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MENARD stated that there are two troopers at                  
  the intersection of the Talkeetna and Parks Highways.                        
                                                                               
  Number 509                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR FOSTER asked if there were any objections to the CS                    
  for SB 82 being moved out of committee.  There were none,                    
  and he declared CSSB 82 to be moved out of committee.                        
                                                                               
  Number 513                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR FOSTER adjourned the meeting at 5:40 p.m.                              

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